*faceplant*

[mousme]

I have no idea what to do about this.

I hate labels, but sometimes there the only things I have to go by, and sometimes they help me figure out where I stand.

I just don't know if the label fits. If I'm even looking in the right label section. Maybe the label I'm looking for is in another aisle entirely and I've just fooled myself into thinking I'm in the right place. Maybe I'm in the wrong place at the right time.

Puke and double puke.

Once I apply the label officially, it'll be very very hard to go back or to change it. I know it's possible to do so, but I like the idea of "measure twice, cut once" so that I don't have to rummage around for what I'm looking for and get it wrong several times.

I don't think perfectionism is going to help me, this time. It's just turning into procrastination, or worse, denial.

I don't even know where to start. Or if I should start.

I'm a coward at heart, always have been. I've always wanted acceptance more than to be my own person, no matter what. It would be easier, in many ways, to continue the way I have been, to leave the matter unspoken of, unexplored, hidden away in a drawer which has been locked and the key thrown away.

I think I could be reasonably happy with how things are now. Then again, things change over the years, and maybe I wouldn't be happy anymore, which begs the question: do I deal with it now, in anticipation of the fact that I might not be happy later, or do I just cross my fingers and hope that it'll never come to that?

I've become used to being on my own when not around friends or family, and I don't mind it. I don't see why I would come to hate solitude in the future.

Comments

[mhw.livejournal.com]

Well, I think there's a difference between labels used by oneself as a kind of shorthand for navigating one's space of possibilities, and labels used by others as a pigeonholing device.

I thoroughly approve of the former, and much less so the latter. Self-labelling tends to be descriptive, not prescriptive. Labels also don't have to function like the little cards on cabinet drawers - real life and real feelings and experiences rarely have a clear-cut either/or taxonomy, and that's something that you have to be quite stern with other people about. If someone says "You call yourself 'X', but I Happen To Know that X people believe A and B and C, and reject D, but here's you sounding dubious about A, uninterested in B, and admitting to the possibilities of D - how dare you?" *chuckle* and that's not a rare reaction, the world's full of amateur taxonomists bent on shoehorning us into neat boxes - you don't have to swallow it. If you feel a kinship with a label, use it, under the advice that people often will ask you "What do you mean by [fitb]?", and way too often do the Taxonomy Tango if your labelling doesn't match their prejudices.

Would it be too invasive to ask which, if any, labels you're debating the use of?

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*hyperventilates*

It's not supposed to be a big deal, but it is to me.

*paces around and has Big Inner Debate*

I'm pretty sure (about 90%) that I'm gay.

Okay, I said it. *waits for sky to fall*

*opens one eye and squints at sky and is relieved to see it still where it was the last time she looked*

My one problem with this is that my mother will never accept it, and I adore her beyond words and have always wanted her approval and "outing" myself to her will mean at best that she'll become more distant and/or lecture me constantly and at worse cut me off entirely.

[mhw.livejournal.com]

*gentle hug*

I remember saying the Big Bad Words to myself the first time. The sky didn't fall then, either. It was actually a lot harder to come out as bi about six years later, since I'd got so much invested in Being OK with that previous self-image, and, you know, all that crap about "well, you'll grow out of it" - I didn't want to grow out of it, didn't want them to have the satisfaction of being proved right. *chuckle* It was all OK, though, I still fancied guys :)

Pragmatically, need you tell your mother? I know it'd be hard if you've always had a "we tell each other everything" relationship, and it's horrible having to learn to lie by omission, even if you don't have to lie directly, BUT. Self-preservation comes first. It has to. If you know someone will react badly if you tell them something, it's smart not to tell them. I know, it would be so dandy to tell her and have her say "Sweetheart, I'm just glad you're happy, because that's all I want for you", but if she isn't going to be able to say that - yet (you never know what can happen in the future) - then I think you just have to do without that bit of motherly approval.

I'd sit on it a while. Mull over the delights of thinking of yourself as Gay!Phnee. Say "lesbian" and smile as you say it, even if it has to be done in the privacy of your room. Let your eyes enjoy the sight of lovely women. The buttons and T-shirts and stuff can come later, ifnwhen you're ready and want them. Be at peace with yourself first.

*more gentle hugs, because*

Re:

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*bawls*

You're so sweet I would kiss you if you weren't across the Atlantic.

*hugs back*

[griffen.livejournal.com]

Oh, kiss him anyway. Kay's the closest thing to a male lesbian you'll find anywhere. *pokes Kay and grins*

Also go look at www.planetout.com and read some of the "Dear Betty" archives. Eye-opening, I promise.

*hugshugs*

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*lol*

Kay, I'd take that as a compliment, if I were you. ;)

*kisses Kay*

[griffen.livejournal.com]

*hug hug hug hug hug* I'm so proud of you, hon.

It's not nearly as scary as you think it is. I know what it's like to have an unaccepting parent. If you want to talk, ping me on YM. If I'm not there, feel free to email me.

I am so proud of you, hon.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Thanks, sweetie. :)

I'll try to ping you when I'm around a little more reliably than today. :)

Am running around like a headless chicken today, for some reason. ^^;

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

I actually think that labels are often not useful. For example, labeling myself as "bipolar" has been difficult. It's actually easier for me to think of it in terms of something like "I'll be taking medication to help stabilize my moods."

Do you mind if I write bluntly about what seems to be going on here? If you're attracted to women, why do you need to apply a label to yourself? I can't imagine how that will help, given how stressful you seem to find this situation. If you're attracted to one woman in particular, then I say see where it leads.

It seems like you're being very critical of yourself. Surrounding yourself with shoulds. A straight woman should think/do/want x. A bi woman should think/do/want y. A lesbian woman should think/do/want z.

Well, you aren't a category. You aren't a label. You're you. There is nothing that you should think, do, want, say, or be. I say ... just explore yourself, and don't worry so much about labels. The world is quick to label people ... don't help with that process.

Of course, I may be completely full of shit. I may be completely misunderstanding your recent journal entries on this topic. But that's what I was thinking as I read this.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

No, you're not misunderstanding at all.

I'm not actually attracted to one woman in particular these days.

This has been a realisation that's been slow in coming, but my fairly disastrous relationship with Poms seems to have clinched it: I'm not attracted to men in general. I've always been attracted to women, I find them beautiful and soft and welcoming, and while I find men to be good-looking, I don't find them attractive, if that makes any sense. Men are simply an aesthetic pleasure for me.

I think the reason I'm having so much trouble with the "lesbian" or "homosexual" label is partly related to the fact that in the past labels in the past have *solved* my problems, not created more. Being labelled "shy" and "bookish" and then "bipolar" and "PTSD" actually helped me explain who I was to the outside world, my parents included.

Now I have a label that's making me face potential censure from the two people I love the most in the world.

I may have to take Kay's advice on this one and just not tell them for a while, if not indefinitely.

The thing is, I'm a terrible liar: it makes me feel physically and mentally horrible. It's all theoretical now, but if I ever get involved with a woman, I'd have to tell her that I'm not "out" to my parents, and then what? She'd think I was ashamed of her, or maybe of me, or both of us, and I've have to start living an out and out lie by telling my parents that she's my "friend" and not my "girlfriend" or my "lover."

Gah.

In case it got lost in that rant, thank you for the support. *hugs*

Re:

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

*hugs back*

I think it's important for you to feel comfortable with whatever label you choose for yourself before you even consider trying to share it with anyone who might judge you for it. Give yourself some time, eh? Find people who will be supportive, so that you don't feel so alone and scared.

*many hugs*

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*noddage*

That's why I made this entry for you guys. I was pretty sure I'd get a nice, supportive, understanding and enlightened response.

'Cause you guys rock my world. :)

I just need to get used to the idea now... *eeps and hides in corner*

Re:

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

Makes sense.

Oh, and I had one more thing I wanted to say, which is that I don't think it's very helpful for you in this situation to try to see into the future to predict how you'll feel if you get involved with someone.

Figure out how to feel comfortable today, and cross tomorrow's bridge when you get to it. I know it's a cliche, but in this case I think it's true. Just take care of yourself, okay?

*more hugs*

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Good point.

*talks sternly to self* No predicting the future!

:)

Thanks for reminding me of that. :)

[paganmommy.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I can be so damned thick headed. I read your entry and thought "Where is the label?" ::tapped foot, drank coffee, refreshed page, read again::: No label. Okay, maybe I am phasing out in the middle of reading. I click out of LJ, have a very intense conversation with a friend, drink more coffee, smoke a cig, read it again. Still nothing. Confusion. Hey, I am comfortable now, confusion is my speciality! *grin* ::does happy noogle:::

Now I am slightly less confused, but honored to be one of two, (hrm.. good borg name too)

Here is the thing about using a label, just as soon as the glue dries, and you feel comfy with it, it is time to apply heat and nail polish remover because the you need to add or subtract something from it. You are a human being, and you grow. You in particular seem to be a very self aware human being, so you will do more growing than most. It helps to use velcro and dry erase markers.

As far as mom is concerned, consider this to me none of her business. There are things about your mother that she will never tell you. Even if it seems she shares everything, I can bet you there are things she hasn't confided to you about, if not, the woman needs to look at her boundaries. This can EASILY be your boundary, at least for now. You don't even know if you can sew on this label yet, so there is no need to share it with her until you feel comfy with it, yk? Even then, some things are private, even if it would be nice to share. That is what you have us for anyway, right? *hugs*

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Damn, but I'm lucky to know you people, you've all made me bawl like a baby today (in a good way). :)


Sorry about not actually including the label. I was putting off actually naming it because saying it out loud makes it true for me. In that sense I'm a bit of a magical realist: words have the power of making things true as far as I'm concerned.

I'm so glad I have you people...

[mina-laury.livejournal.com]

*supportive hugs*

Oh, babe. It's perfectly all right to be leery of labels; people are constantly trying to take them away and alter them to what they think they should mean and then pin them back on you.

Is saying 'I'm attracted to women' any less scary than 'I'm gay'?

There will be acceptance, you know. Some of it will come from the people you expect, and some from the people you don't.

And what everyone else said, in spades.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*inarticulate gurgle*

*hugs*

I don't know. It's not the "gay" part that's scary. It's what the label means to other people that's scary. My parents, specifically.

See, everyone else I know will either be supportive, or else they just won't really care or they'll leave, and while it'll hurt if they leave, I can live with it. I'm not sure I can live happily without my parents' acceptance.

For the moment, though, I'm going to sit on this newfound knowledge and try to have some fun with it.

Painful revelations to the Parental Units can come later. ^^;

Re: *faceplant*

[wolfieboy.livejournal.com]

Any label that you apply to yourself is also yours to take off again, especially if it's being used for an internal handle for you.

As for the parents, it's possible that they'll be like mine. For my parents, they specifically notice anything else rather than acknowledge that I'm not hetero.

Good luck in dealing with this.

*Hugs*

Re: *faceplant*

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Yurgh. That must suck big suckables through sucking things. :P

My mother (I think) has this bizarre ingrained belief that homosexuality is somehow some kind of weird contagious disease. She freaked out about my wanting to join a hotline for gay people at my university, telling me that in order to help "those people" (her favourite phrase for designating those she considers to be "Other") I would have to understand them, and in order to understand them I would have to be like them.

So by a process of osmosis, I would become gay, which of course would be a Bad Thing™.

*shakes head*

I think my father would be okay with it, at least intellectually. He's very left–leaning (my mother tends to be rabidly conservative even though she doesn't vote that way), works hard for the rights of the working–class and for feminist movements, and one of his younger brothers is gay (but otherwise extremely troubled for a number of reasons).

Much more noodling to be done on the subject.

Am sorry to hear your Parental Units aren't supportive. For me that's always the hardest blow. :(

[joane.livejournal.com]

{{{{hugs}}}} The wise ones above have said pretty much everything I could say right here, so I'll just add my voice to the chorus. You know how I feel about labels and my (apparently not unique!) double-coming-out experience. Here's a label I prefer: "ME". :)

Enjoy the thrill of being able to recognize crushes on beautiful girls. Revel in the sense of discovery and acceptance of yourself and your own desires. This is an adventure, babe, not a problem to be solved. And you're welcome to raid my bookshelves any time you like. :)

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*hugs back*

You rocketh, as usual, sweetness. :)

"ME" is of course my favourite label, but unfortunately sometimes I need secondary labels to help define "ME" a little more accurately.

This label seems to fit so far. It's just what I anticipate to be other people's reaction which is causing problems.

What's *really* cool, though, is that there are *tons* of beautiful girls out there. ;)

I am off to read that collection of stories from tonight. Remind me to bring back the books I've read on Sunday. :)

Thanks for everything, sweetie. :D

[meallanmouse.livejournal.com]

:: hugs ::

Same as what all said, really. Though I'd have to say the Parental Units can so very much wait. Far better for you to be on solid ground (and this for a while too) and know you'll have people to rely on, should it not go well.

And people to celebrate with you, should they show understanding and acceptance.

:: nods and hugs again ::