Muslims and faggots and clones, oh my!

[mousme]

Yes, I had dinner with my mother tonight. What tipped you off?

Let's start with the not-so-bad part of the evening. My best friend from childhood, Thomas, now living in New Brunswick, has converted to Islam. Colour me flummoxed, as he was about the most agnostic Anglican ever to walk this earth up until recently (apart from a brief flirtation with Buddhism a few years ago).

My mother is concerned that he might turn fundamentalist. I find it highly unlikely, especially as a tow-haired blue-eyed Nova Scotian would have a bit of difficulty fitting in with Al-Quaeda. /sarcasm

If I can get his address, I'm going to send him The Life of Pi which I think would be a good read for him.

Apart from that, no other news, save that two of his cousins are getting married this summer.


The less fun part of the evening essentially revolved around the fact that gay people are going to cause the end of civilisation. Yes, ladies and gentlement, gay people are EVIL because they are clearly selfish and thinking of no one but themselves when they want the right to marry.

To quote the Simpsons: "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?"

If you think I'm exaggerating when I tell you that my mother is the Queen of the Irrational World, you are wrong, my friend, very very wrong.

Here's her reasoning from tonight:

Gay people are getting married *only* to have children in the future. BUT, these children won't be conceived naturally, oh no. That would be too simple. Gay people have PERVERTED the natural laws, it's in progress right now, making it possible to have conception between two people of the same sex (in a laboratory context, of course) by simply "fertilizing" two cells from people of the same sex.

Terrified yet? I certainly am.

So, in my mother's mind: Gay people = weird unethical cloning-like procedure = EVIL.

Or, in her words undesirable.


That's the evening's conversation in a nutshell. Oh, sure, there were arguments bandied about about how it was the "child's right" to have two parents of the opposite sex (she conveniently brushed off single parents, divorced parents and widows and widowers as "always having been there so there's no need for laws, just as there's no need for a law for people to have noses," which nonplussed me so much I didn't have the strength to argue anymore), and how being homosexual was not "desirable" (phrased in a rhetorical question: "But what, in your opinion, is the most desirable state?" which of course implied that we were idiots to think anything but married heterosexual couples were desirable).

She called my father short-sighted and ignorant of everything that was happening in "science" these days (*cough*potkettleblack!*cough*), and luckily he held his temper.

It was all I could do not to just sit there and cry by the end, so I left, as politely as I could, although my mother made a snarky comment to me about leaving because "this interesting debate has upset you so much?" as though I was supposed to accept her viewpoint as the Gospel Truth and not let myself be upset by her bigotry.

I'm SO never telling her I'm gay. Never in a million years. I can't bear to think of my own mother hating me like that.

Comments

[djs-specs.livejournal.com]

*huggles* Oh honey, I wish there was something I could do... Don't listen to her hon and try not to let her irrationality upset you.

I know its easy for me to say that because I'm not in your position (not yet at least :P), but its the only advice I can offer.

*smooches* For what its worth, I think you're a perfectly wonderful human being and you're not evil because you're gay.

Oh, incidentally, what's your mum's address...? *considers exploding Phnee's mum's brain a bit while she's over in Montreal*

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Thanks, sweetie. :)

*massive huggles*

My mother's a raving lunatic, is what I've leanred from tonight.

Please don't explode her brain, though: I'm the one who'll have to deal with the fallout (literally ^_-).

Re:

[djs-specs.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll be nice... Although it'd be fun to meet her and go 'Oh, by the way, I'm one of those gay people you find so undesirable'

But I'm a born trouble-maker :P

Incidentally hon, if she brings up that cell fusion reproduction thing again perhaps you can mention that that method has been bandied about by scientists for several years as a method for infertile *heterosexual* couples to reproduce (of course, ones where the woman is able to bear a child). After all, where does she thing that gays got the idea for that sort of thing?

At the very least that'll hopefully make her admit that she just has an issue with gay people - not with any potential methods they might use to reproduce and 'spread the evil'. I, personally, have less of a problem with people that just don't like gays than people who try to back it up with the bible or whatever other argument they can lay their hands on.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Incidentally hon, if she brings up that cell fusion reproduction thing again perhaps you can mention that that method has been bandied about by scientists for several years as a method for infertile *heterosexual* couples to reproduce (of course, ones where the woman is able to bear a child). After all, where does she thing that gays got the idea for that sort of thing?

*snort*

Clearly, you haven't grasped the extent of my mother's pottiness. Both my father and I pointed this out to her and she scoffed at us and brushed it aside, her reasoning being:

1- No heterosexual couple could ever possibly want such an unnatural and unethical procedure, since all heterosexual couples clearly follow the same path of morality as she.

2- Homosexual couples are the only ones who really need cell fusion reproduction in order to produce the perversion that would be a child created by cells from two people of the same sex.

3- A heterosexual couple want children for selfless reasons, while homosexuals are selfish and depraved.

See my problem?

Re:

[djs-specs.livejournal.com]

Even from over there your mother is making my brain hurt. That's quite a feat.

I suppose bitchslap upside the head would be out of the question - it might knock some common sense into her...

I'm curious as to where those labs are

[sorceror.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear that. But I think she might see another side of the issue if she ever did find out -- don't give up hope yet! It would probably take her some time to adjust, but in the end she might surprise you.

Is there a chapter of PFLAG around here? They might have some helpful advice.

Perseity in D+2/3rds !!!

Re: I'm curious as to where those labs are

[mousme.livejournal.com]

I have no idea where those labs are —she never specified. :P Besides, delving into whether or not this Unnatural Cloning Procedure™ was actually taking place would have got us even further off the topic, which was Why Gay Marriage Is Bad.

Whee! Perseity!

Re: I'm curious as to where those labs are

[karine.livejournal.com]

Actually, I tend to agree with Sorceror...

there was this editorial cartoon I saw where people were picketing against abortion and the man in front was clearly the leader... and this teenage girl was tugging at his sleeve saying, 'um, daddy, there's something I have to tell you...'

Thing is, a person may have one attitude and one belief about things, until they come face to face with it. Experience changes a person. Circumstances will be that Gays will not be put in a package of "those evil people", but will be something that's a part of who you are. She knows you, she raised you, and learning that you're homosexual will give her a slap in the face, yes, but it will also cause her to question her beliefs and convictions because how could you possibly be evil? You are her daughter.

Does your dad know?
- Karine

Re: I'm curious as to where those labs are

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Possibly, but right now I'm just not secure enough with myself to risk it. I'm going to be selfish a while longer and avoid the confrontation until I feel ready (if ever).

As for my father, I think he suspects, but I haven't worked up the nerve to tell him yet. I think he'll be fine with it, actually.

Re: I'm curious as to where those labs are

[joane.livejournal.com]

(Psst - PFLAG isn't a tech lab, it's a group called Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays - a support group for those trying to understand/support/deal with a friend or relative who's just come out. As far as I know, there's no Montreal chapter - I went looking for material when I came out to my mom. Other chapters do come from other places in Quebec to march in Diverse-Cite, though!)

{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

Sheeesh....

[griffen.livejournal.com]

Your mom makes Danny's and my mothers look like open-minded socially aware people by comparison.

I'm so very sorry, love. Keep that gay chin of yours up as you continue your gay life and your gay job while living in your gay apartment and posting to your gay livejournal. *schnug*

hmmm

[ipanicked.livejournal.com]

It seems as though sex orientation is a regular topic for your mother. I wonder why that would be...

Have you considered that she might know?

[wolfsden.livejournal.com]

Sounds like she does know, and is trying to bully you out of your "undesirable" ways.

Also sounds like your dad is waiting for you to come forth, and arguing with your mother is his way of letting you know that you have his support.

My son is 4, and believe me, if he was gay, I'd know it already... it's obvious when you observe, just where a person's interests lie. [Course he's a bit of an over achiever and tries to pick up teenage girls.]

Be your own person, happy in the knowledge you are a special and caring individual. Say or do what you have to with them, and know that anything she might say does not pertain to you. It is only a statement of who she is.

[ex-digitalis869.livejournal.com]

I'm SO never telling her I'm gay. Never in a million years. I can't bear to think of my own mother hating me like that.

And that's exactly why you should tell her. She sees queers as something foreign right now and it needs to be more real to her, closer to home. Changing the world, one person at a time.

On the other hand, don't force it before you're ready. Take your time. I took seven years to come out to my mom, and lived over a thousand miles away when I did. And I told my mother on the phone. There was a lot of crying and screaming and letters about God, but we both survived it.

And no, she's still not happy, but see the part about surviving, and also, I'm not afraid of her finding out before I tell her now.

[mhw.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, Phnee, but your mother is a raving loon. It takes a certain genius to be so orthogonal to reality on all the axes.

Though, you know, um, would you like to have Evil Clone Babies™ with me? I'd so love to make her an Evil Clone Grandmother™ :D

[twilightelysium.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry about your mother. I read almost all of this without knowing whether she knew you were gay or not. Oh! Either way is no fun for you though. But then this way does have hope. If she learnt she could realise her mistake, perhaps? It is easier to be bigoted against that which you do not know.
Good luck. :/

[chasingthenuns.livejournal.com]

first, i am sorry you're mother is like that. she seems very closed minded. if you lived closer i would make my mother adopt you (not legally but in every other sense). and she would too.

second, this struck me as extremely bizarre: she conveniently brushed off single parents, divorced parents and widows and widowers as "always having been there

haven't gays and lesbians always been around?

[mousme.livejournal.com]

second, this struck me as extremely bizarre: *snip*

haven't gays and lesbians always been around?

Yes, but you've missed the point: my mother is a whack job. :P

[curtana.livejournal.com]

Yeah, what everyone else said re. your mother being highly bonkers.

It sounds like you've at least expressed your disagreement with her position, which is a good start. Have you tried letting her know how much this offends you? Just at a general level, mind. Something like "That's a really horrible thing to say. I can't believe how bigoted that sounds," or something like that. No need to yell or scream, but a calm statement registering your extreme displeasure. It looks like trying to argue with her on a rational basis isn't effective.

Another tactic might be to mention that you have friends who are gay, and it bothers you to hear her say things like that about them (no need to name names, of course, if you don't want to). This would be one way of 'bringing it closer to home' (as several people have suggested) without actually coming out yourself. Is there anyone she knows/admires/respects who is gay? A friend of the family, a neighbour, co-worker, whatever? You might also mention them (if such a person exists) as a potential example of a non-evil gay person.

I rather doubt that any of this will make your mother a better person, sad to say, but it might make her think twice about spouting off about such subjects around you, at least.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, no one we know that well is gay except my uncle, and my mother is revulsed by him in general (not just because he's gay but for many other reasons).

I wish I could point someone close by that she respects, but she deliberately closes herself off to "that kind of person."

I've already tried speaking calmly in that way. "I don't like it when you speak that way," etc. only seems to inflame her even more, and then she starts in on the ad hominem attacks. A few years ago, when I spoke of joining the McGill Queer Help Line, she threw seven kinds of hissy fits and basically told me that if I wanted to help "those people" I would have to completely immerse myself in their world and thus become "like them."

Becoming gay by osmosis —another of my mother's pet theories. She has a bunch of other theories, but they're less outlandish. :P

I suspect that's also a big part of why she's such a homophobe: she's afraid of becoming "contaminated" or something.

In other words, she's a nutcase.

Thanks, btw: they're all really good suggestions. :)