A "theoretical" question ;)

[mousme]

Yeah, so, once again Phnee has been thinking far too much for her own good (I think someone posted the other day that one of their pet peeves is people referring to themselves in the third person, which I kinda like doing as long as I'm being sarcastic... anyway), which has led me to this post.

Since most (if not all) of you are far more experienced than I am relationship-wise, I have a few points on which I'd appreciate your opinion/experience/advice/input/whatever.

Namely (this was inspired mostly by griffen but also by a numer of others) the topic of internet and or/long-distance relationships. Allow me to elaborate (not that you have much say in the matter, and good Lord I've used a lot of parentheses today!):

Up until recently, I had the (admittedly close-minded) view that an internet-based relationship wasn't as good as one based on mutual acquaintance and physical accesssibility.

Now, obviously, not so sure.

So, I was wondering: how do these things work? How does one go from being a random internet acquaintance to having an online relationship? What are the advantages, the disadvantages, the pitfalls, the good, the bad and the ugly?

This actually *is* a theoretical post, in spite of the quotation marks in the subject line (I thought they were funny), but I'd still like to know your opinions on the matter.

Thanks all! :)

Comments

[griffen.livejournal.com]

Well, you've seen how Kay and I work, right?

A relationship isn't about the physical anyway, at least not for me. It's about the mind and heart of the person you are with.

Kay and I love each other, even though we may never meet in person.

Does that help?

Re:

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Uh, sort of, but it doesn't tell me much more than I already knew. :)

I mean, how did you and Kay know, or decide, that you wanted to become partners, for instance?

[griffen.livejournal.com]

How do you know when you're in person with someone that you want to become partners? Does it make any difference what they look like? To me, it doesn't -- although I think all my partners are beautiful.

It's getting to know someone. When you know them well enough, you may fall in love with them. That's what happened with Kay and me. We got to know each other well enough that we realized we were in love, and that's.... that's it. It wasn't nearly as complicated as it sounds.

[ex-digitalis869.livejournal.com]

So, I was wondering: how do these things work? How does one go from being a random internet acquaintance to having an online relationship? What are the advantages, the disadvantages, the pitfalls, the good, the bad and the ugly?

Seven years ago i used to say jokingly, "Local for sex, long distance for love." It wasn't something i did, but it wasn't entirely in jest, either.

That said...i've had several short-term long distance relationships. I think the longest duration was about a year. The shortest distance was a three hour drive, and we saw each other about once a month. The longest distance was over a thousand miles, and although we dated for a year, and are still friends, we've never met.

Pros: I used to communicate better in print than i did in person, and it was a really neat way to get to know someone. In some ways i got to know people online better than i did in person, because of the non-verbal communication. I can't think of any other pros.

Cons: In some ways communication works *too* well, and because it's hard to go backwards or stall a relationship without killing it, the relationship can progress too fast for comfort levels.

No physical contact, and the nights get lonely.

You have no idea how this person is going to ineteract or fit in with your friends or other real human beings. Believe me, it does make a difference.

You have no idea if you have body chemistry. Even if looks don't mean anything to you, what if their body language really doesn't do anything for you?

The ugly: The waiting, oh god, the waiting. Even if you have the patience of Job, waiting sucks rotten eggs.

The uncertainty...it's much harder to feel secure when you are not a part of anything "real" in that person's daily life, when you have to trust, absolutely, that they're giving you a clear, unbiased view of what they're really like.

The expense. Even if you have the self-control of a saint, you will eventually spend money on long-distance calls, or on trips, or...

How does one go from being a random internet acquaintance to having an online relationship?

The same way non-internet relationships start: Someone asks someone else if they want to date. Or at least it's worked that way in my experience.

I think internet relationships can be as deep, as stable, and as rewarding as relationships begun offline, but they do have different pros and cons. And you have to look at where you eventually want this to go. If you're just dating for fun, i would highly recommend not looking at long-distance relationships. Those tend to get you sucked tighter and tighter into a smaller world that ends up revolving around online interaction, whereas real-life dating gets you out of the house and involved in other things. Therefore, if and when the relationship is ended, it's potentially less devastating.

However, if you meet someone online and everything clicks and you start caring about each other, and what you're really wanting or thinking about is something long-term and serious, then go for it. Just make plans to make take it offline eventually.

My humble opinion

[ingenuemuse.livejournal.com]

Online only relationships are destined for failure, longing, and hurt.

Now, if you were going to meet the person for sure I'd say go for it.

I dated a man I met off the internet, and quite liked him. Sadly, I also had bad experiences with men off the internet (aka: stalkers), but I've gone on to meet many friends that I met online.

If you think there may be some attraction, and will meet, try not to let it get tyoo hot and heavy online till after you met, to avoid the eventual queasines of let down.

No, I'm not cynical, why do you ask?

*EDIT: I deleted this comment thinking I was coming off as a negative bitch, but its back again, as I'm sure you wanted everyones honest opinion. I've tried "online love", hated it each time. Never again. Meeting is different all together though.

Re: My humble opinion

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Thanks sweetie. I was indeed looking for honest opinions. :)

Re: My humble opinion

[palmir.livejournal.com]

I'm with her.

But then, I like physical contact; cuddling, kissing, handholding, massages, etc; and I like body language in general. I've had two relationships that started on the 'net, then when we met we had absolutely no physical chemistry. I've also had one relationship that lasted almost two and a half years that started in person, but was mostly online/long-distance.

That said (and with the understanding that I will NEVER again get into another internet-exclusive relationship), here's some pros and cons from my own experience:

The pros: You really do get to know each other. It can be easier to get to know someone on the 'net, and to let more of yourself out earlier (which can lead to one of the cons) than you would in person. Love can, and does, blossom over the 'net for the simple reason that Love's blind (mmm, cliches)... it doesn't care what someone looks like, it just cares about how compatible their personality is with yours.

The cons: It's easy to let more of yourself out earlier, and thus easier to be hurt if something goes wrong (the longer a relationship, the worse the hurt regardless, but the reason for that is the amount of emotion/yourself you've put into the relationship, not the amount of time). Unless both partners are honest (in general about themselves), and open with their feelings, it's a lot easier to feel "stood up" or otherwise hurt. The relationship depends on technology. If one person's on a sucky connection, things can be no fun for chatting. Loneliness in general - wanting to do something with the other person, whether seeing a movie or playing in the snow or going out to dinner - is very very frustrating.
Biggest con: You never know if the other person's telling the truth or lying. Odds of them lying go down if they have a webcam and turn it on for you while you're chatting, so you can see their reactions. Even then, there's some things you can't check (do they really work at ____? Are they *really* divorced, or just looking for a quick thrill? etc).

But I'm not bitter.

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

Um. Okay. I'll be the voice of caution. I do know people who have met their spouses online and suchlike. So my experience was not necessarily universal or even representative or even common. But here goes.

The one relationship I had with someone I primarily got to know online before becoming ... er ... more involved in the physical world ... well, it was a nightmare. The worst experience of my life. The guy in question created a very sympathetic and charming persona ... in fact, he's very charming in real life, as well.

He reminds me of Prince Charming's line in Into the Woods: "I was raised to be charming, not sincere."

Anyway, the anonymity of the Internet can allow people to portray themselves as very different from what they're really like. You don't have the opportunity to see them with their real-life friends, or get to know their real-life friends, or see them interacting with other people, or any of that. All you know is what they want to tell you. And even if you see them interacting with other people online, that's still only what they are choosing to show.

The guy I got involved with seemed like the most honest, sensitive, kind person I'd ever met in my entire life. We were friends online (and rarely in person) for months before getting romantically involved, so I felt that I knew him fairly well.

I didn't.

Yeah, someone I met offline could pull the same sort of fake-persona crap ... but the Internet just makes it very easy, because the anonymity is built right in.

As they say, "On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog." Well, on the Internet, no one knows you're a jerk, either. Or a psychopath. Or a compulsive liar. Or physically abusive. Or any number of bad things.

So I would advise extreme caution, personally. There are a lot of great people out there, but the are a lot of scary people, too.

Paradox

[soccer-mom56.livejournal.com]

I could go on and on about this but I am tired, so there is no way that one can have an "online boyfriend/girlfriend".

Paradox

[soccer-mom56.livejournal.com]

I could go on and on about this but I am tired, so simply stated: there is no way that one can have an "online boyfriend/girlfriend".

[rah.livejournal.com]

I could probably write an entire novel on this subject, but I'll try to keep it shorter than that. My background probably makes me more than a little biased on these. I met the only girl I ever truly loved online. I've had other relationships originate there as well. But that's the key for me. They can START online, and that can be great. But for me they can't STAY there. To me anybody that claims to be in a romantic relationship with someone they've never met is either delusional or defines "relationship" extremely differently than I, or I would think most of society does (not that society is always right, but I'm digressing).

To me, all things being equal (although sadly they rarely are) I'd prefer meeting someone that I'd been talking with online over meeting someone in a club or a bar any damn day. There's a certain niceness to me in getting to know someone before you ever actually meet them. Instead of meeting a stranger in a bar, when you meet someone that you've known online first it's more like seeing a friend you haven't seen in awhile. :) Of course this comes with the caveat that some people can be pretty damned deceitful and the person you meet may not be the person you thought you knew.

You may also find that why you seemed to click like you never thought possible online, that you have no chemistry in real life. Crazy as it sounds it's true, it's happened to me. The advice to be careful is extremely pertinent as well. And listen to yourself if you have any doubts about meeting someone. I "celebrated" the millennium New Year's Eve alone in the middle of nowhere because I ignored a gut feeling.

As for how those relationships went from "random internet acquaintances" to relationships, wow it's really hard for me to say. In all of them I can honestly say it just kinda happened. At the times it just seemed like the natural progression of where we were going. And there you have what for me historically has been the biggest advantage of meeting people online. I've evolved on this one a great deal, but it used to be that I was a LOT more articulate in my online writing than I was in person. It's also a lot easier for me to be more forward and direct online than face to face. (read: I'm a bigger flirt online than in person).

So to me online "dating" has definite advantages. But with that said I will NEVER do a long distance relationship again. It just will not work for me if the person isn't within reaching distance. When I was in love with a girl I'd met online, and after we'd met in person and were apart again the worst feeling in the world was the ache that was created by wanting to just touch her or feel her presence and knowing that I couldn't. I will never put myself through that again. But I guess that one depends on the person.

Good luck with wherever you end up going in this arena. And feel free to ask me anything else you'd like....obviously I have more than a few opinions and experiences on it. ;-)

My take?

[fearsclave.livejournal.com]

The absence of physical contact would be extremely frustrating, IMHO. Not even being able to grab and hug (or other, less PG-13 things) my SO when she wanders by would drive me nuts in the very short term. Communicating is all fine and dandy and an essential part of any relationship, but so is the wild monkey sex. And the cuddling. And the kissing them goodbye when you leave for work in the morning.

We're both mind and body, and both need their own sort of contact.

IMHO.

[joane.livejournal.com]

I am *so* unbelievably biased against online romances that I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just jump right into the middle. Do note that this does not include meeting someone online, within a decently close geographbic proximity, and chatting for a few weeks before meeting them in person. That's cool. It also doesn't include established relationships that go long distance due to work or school. They're hard, but doable.

Online relationships in which the principals have never met and are barely likely to ever meet are a disaster waiting to happen. They're safe. They're easy. You can read whatever you want to imagine into a person's body-language-less words, and create an imaginary Perfect Mate out of a frog. You never have to deal with sexual issues, with body image issues, with the day-to-day stuff that comes with seeing someone face to face. You never see them snort when they laugh, or with a booger half-hanging out of their nose. You never see them at their worst and love them for it anyway.

What's more important, they never see you at *your* worst, and there will always be that doubt in your mind. Real love is there when you're bitchy, sees you through your best and worst moods, and *stays*. Real love doesn't need an edit button, or a delete key. Real love is blurting out stupid things in the heat of the discussion and knowing that no matter what you say or do, that person will try their damndest to understand. It's not rewriting the same e-mail six times before sending a watered-down version of what you might have wanted to get across six hours ago.

You never get to hold them when they cry after a serious heartbreak, and have that moment of perfect love when you realize that you really don't care that he just goobered all over your favourite shirt because hey, snot and tears wash out and it'll all be okay in the end. You never achieve any kind of real intimacy, and that's just fine if all you want is to be able to say "yeah, I've got a girlfriend." But it's not enough to really *live*.

My advice? (this goes for you too, Aussie girl, if you're reading this! You know who you are! Print this out and stick it over your computer if you have to!)

Get out of the house. Don't lock yourself in and chain yourself to a screen, a keyboard and a fantasy. I've been there, and it *sucks*, especially now that I know exactly what I was missing the entire time. Find a real-world, real life person who'll go dancing with you, bring over a good book just 'cause she thought you might like it, eat leftover chinese food straight from the carton and melted ice cream from your belly button, and yes, snort when she laughs. You deserve more than a vague fantasy and empty promises from half a world away.

You deserve more than a net fling. You deserve real love, and you cannot find that over a modem alone.

[shenlo.livejournal.com]

Don't know if you're still reading these, but in case you are....

Joane said pretty much the same thing as I was going to. Online is just a fantasy. You don't know who they really are. Photographs are just photographs. Even if they think they're being open and honest, you aren't getting to REALLY know them. I DO speak from some experience, so this isn't just an idealist vision or anything.

The pros: You can "fall in love" with a fantasy person who speaks in beautiful 8 point font. You can fantasize with assistance. But you know... I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to simply compose some kind of randomized artificial intelligence to do the same thing for you.

The cons: You delude yourself. You can't go out with this person. You can't BE there for or with this person. A whole catalog of cons too numerous to put here.

Oh, I'm just rambling here now. All I can say is online relations are fun to fantasize and play. But anything too serious (and I mean, obviously, long-distance, virtual only relations) is just unhealthy.

Not much experience...

[vureoelt.livejournal.com]

... but I'll weigh in on the topic. Yes it can pay off. Yes it might work. But be prepared to be burned at least once. If you're lucky, the preparation will be for naught.

Pros: Rather than running into someone by "locale" (bar, hardware store, library, wherever you go) you're more likely to run into someone with the same interests. (Chat room on topic X, etc.) As you may have noticed the guild selection of lovely ladies is somewhat small for instance... ;) So also, you wind up with a bigger pool of people to possibly get something to work through with. And, I guess it's less intimidating for some to not be face-to-face.

Cons: You might be deceived. Intentionally or not, people see themselves as one way and may not see some of their very own big shortcomings. The amount of self-editing and re-inventing might happen. You might wind up with someone very far afield making real human contact serious trouble. If you're willing to do without, then go right ahead. I don't recommend that though. Even if you do meet up, reality may intrude on your interpreted relationship and spike it very thoroughly. You might be played... there was this one girl I knew who was "sweet" with a huge bunch of friends of mine all while keeping it relatively secret.

If you want my personal opinion, I don't think it's for you. I think you'll get burned, possibly burned bad. This type of activity is more for those thick-skinned, prolific date types.