A nifty quote

[mousme]

"A big transformation for me was from consumer to citizen. Once you take out the consumer role in your life, you start to have a lot more time and passion and money to contribute as a citizen."
~Judith Levine

Yes. That.

Taken from this article. It's a tempting idea. I don't know if I could go for a year without buying books, though. I might be able to go an entire year without going to the movies. Lord knows, I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the movies I went out to see.

It makes me wonder if I could do it...

Comments

[elanya.livejournal.com]

Lets try that again, only coherent this time :p

Things to consider here - this woman is starting from a background of having a stable two person household and income. Now, on one hand, this means that she is probably giving up more by stopping her consumption at a certain level.

But those of us who are mostly trying to keep our heads above water financially as it is are not genrally engaging in that muich frivolous conmption. How much money do you really think you will save, and how much time? Because you know, you have so much spare time and money that you're dumping into consumption now... I'm just not convinced you would really get a lot of return for your emotional investment. When was the last time you impulse bought something? Why did you do it?

[joane.livejournal.com]

Because you know, you have so much spare time and money that you're dumping into consumption now... I'm just not convinced you would really get a lot of return for your emotional investment.

Yes, that. It's not like you're going shopping for imitation Prada bags on your every lunch break, or something. Not that we couldn't all improve on what we're doing, but I don't know that you have a large enough footprint to be able to reduce it significantly enough in this manner to make up for the emotional frustrations/timesuck of the effort.

And you know how you say you never have any freee time, even once you clear out a stack of activities? This would be why - as soon as you have any brainspace cleared, you fill it with new time-sucking priorities. It's not a bad thing, but probably easier to see from out here. ;)

[mousme.livejournal.com]

as soon as you have any brainspace cleared, you fill it with new time-sucking priorities.

*snerk*

I wish you were wrong. I *so* wish you were wrong... ;)

[mousme.livejournal.com]

I understood you the first time. Like I said to bodhifox below, I appreciate that these people consume far more than I do, because of their income and lifestyle.

However, it's still interesting to think about. :)

[elanya.livejournal.com]

*I* didn't understood half of what I typed the first time - the perils of being distracted late at night ;p

I guess in some senses, I've been trying to be a more conscious consumer for a long time. I don't buy things because they are brand name, mI don't load up my house with convenience foods or pointless disposable products (Swiffer - I hate them, conceptually), I very rarely impuse buy anythig, I have a hard time buying new clothes for all kinds of reasons, including the fact that in my head I know I shoul just make my own if I want them to fit and if I actauly want to like them. I guess what I was really thinking is that although there are lots of good reasons to think about how you consume, I don't think that at my level of consumer (And I'm guessing yours as well), the benefits aren't going to be anything about having more time and money. I think you are already showing plenty of passion towards becming more citizenly :)

And speaking of reducing waste, have you ever heard rants from me or possibly Julie about this shiny little bee product?

[curtana.livejournal.com]

Yes! I meant to mention that - stopping the consumption of unnecessary products in favour of something that works better as well as being environmentally sounder make a lot of sense to me. For the rest of my thoughts, see below ;)

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I have been meaning to look into obtaining one of those (as I said to Lannie, sometimes not having a credit card is a real stumbling-block in this world).

[curtana.livejournal.com]

They always used to stock them at Le Frigo Vert on Mackay. I would try there first, then check other organic/environmentally-friendly type shops.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Really? Wow.

I shall check it out next time I'm in the area, in that case. Bee products otherwise are stupidly expensive and bad for the environment.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

I heard about the shiny bee product from you, curtana and longpig when you first got them, and had heard of a similar product (forget what it was called) when I was at the Women's Union at McGill.

I haven't worked up the nerve to get one, not to mention that, not having a credit card, it's very hard for me to order stuff over t3h int4rw33bs. But yes, it looks very very shiny and I'm getting around to it, slowly but surely. ;)

[elanya.livejournal.com]

Check health food and organic food stores - they often carry them with other hippy beauty products.

[mellybean71.livejournal.com]

I think I read something similar but the people were Canadian. I know they got aroung the book thing by using libraries. You could probably borrow from friends too.

Speaking of saving money-- I picked up a neat tip. You can buy pine pellets from the hardware store (they're used in woodstoves) in place of cat litter. It's much cheaper, you can flush the solid stuff and the other used stuff is biodegradable and can be dumped in your yard as mulch. It should run you about 5-$10/month.

[mellybean71.livejournal.com]

Also, the story I read had them using barter and places like FreeCycle a lot.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I love my silicone-based cat litter, though. I don't know if I can bring myself to give it up just yet, no matter how good the other stuff is. :)

[mellybean71.livejournal.com]

I only mentioned it because I knew you were planning to live more "green". I'm gonna give it a try once we find it and I'll let you know how it goes.

I asked at my church btw and my first instinct was correct, the Maison Verte Co-op is where you should go for more info about local produce.

[bodhifox.livejournal.com]

What she did is what we do already. I was expecting a real stab at it. We don't shop. We have clothes for the kids, most of which are passed on or gifts from my wife's mother, and utilities, food basics and mortgage payments. That is about it. So why haven't we written a book? We weren't over the top consumers to begin with. I'm willing to bet you're a lot closer to average consumption. These people have two residences and two incomes.

I will say though, good for them for cutting back. I actually know the town in Vermont. It isn't a glamorous town. But still, two residences! I'd be very interested to see how someone went off the grid, raised all their own food, cut their own wood or whatever and bartered for what they needed.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Oh, agreed. These people consume more in a month than I do in probably two years.

However, it mirrors something I've been thinking about, which is the way in which I consume. Sure, I don't buy tons of frivolous things all the time. I shop for clothes once or twice a year, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I was in a shopping mall/department store in the last two years.

That being said, I've been thinking about what it means to be a consumer. Even if I don't buy stuff (which I do), I still think about a lot of things in terms of what I can buy/afford, and what I can't. A lot of the stuff on my imaginary wish list (stuff which would be nice but that I can't realistically afford) fit nicely into the category of consumer pr0n.

For instance, I'd really like a food processor and a bread maker and a juicer. Do I need these things? No. I have managed very well without them for going on five years now. Would I like to have them? Yes. I would very much like to have a food processor in order to make soups quickly and efficiently. Is a food processor good for the environment? Not especially. It uses electricity, is made up of mostly plastic and/or highly-refined metals, which means a lot of energy was expended in making it, and if and when it dies, I probably won't be able to recycle it in any useful fashion.

So.

I guess my conclusion is: I don't know.

It's still interesting to think about.

[curtana.livejournal.com]

Is a food processor good for the environment?

It may use electricity and be made from plastic and metals, but if it lets you make soup regularly instead of buying it, I suspect that its impact probably balances out. And it consumes a lot less electricity than, say, a computer or a stove.

Personally, I think that stopping consuming isn't the best way to go about it. Unless I'm going to be completely self-sufficient, I will always need to buy things from other people. It makes more sense to me to think hard about the things I buy - who made them, where did they come from, how much use and enjoyment will I get out of them, and could the money be better spent elsewhere. If local merchants and craftspeople and farmers are to stay in business, consumers need to support them. Responsible consumption seems more sensible to me than no consumption.

[elanya.livejournal.com]

I really agree with this, and not only because consumption is inevitable (as it is), but partly because the economy is so crucial in human interactions, on a local and international level. I think that being aware of where the things available to buy come from and making informed decisions is the most important thing we can do as consumers. I am....medium at actually doing this.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I haven't been especially good about being an informed consumer until recently, but I am making an effort now.

curtana has hit the nail on the head about being a responsible consumer as opposed to a non-consumer (which isn't all that realistic, IMHO).

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I don't think it's possible to be completely self-sufficient unless you're a complete nutcase who lives like a hermit.

I don't think a complete lack of consuming is the key, but stopping conspicuous consumption may be part of it. I don't think of myself as a conspicuous consumer, but I think that with very little effort I could become a more responsible consumer/citizen. I am trying, as you said, to think more about what I'm buying, and to try and limit myself to buying locally where I can.

So, yes. Responsible consumption as opposed to no consumption.

[urban-homestead.livejournal.com]

I think - and I'm going to post more about this in my own journal, concidentally - that there's more to it than responsible consumption. It's our societal inability to say, "I have enough, I don't need anything more" that I find alarming, not just because of the environmental damage created by excess production, but because people in this society are so rich and have so much stuff and are so unhappy. And I don't mean you, but the average thirtysomething and up, it probably is true for. People work horrifically long hours to pay for the McMansions they have no time to spend in, and they are still depressed because the people on TV seem to have so much more than they do. No matter how rich people are, no matter how much they have, they still hunger after more. And that's not because they're greedy, it's because as a society we have all but forgotten the difference between liking something and needing it. A shopping "fast" seems to me like as good a way as any to break this habit and learn all over again the difference between "want" and "need"

[mousme.livejournal.com]

A shopping "fast" seems to me like as good a way as any to break this habit and learn all over again the difference between "want" and "need."

Quite. For me this will essentially be a processes of thinking more about what I'm buying and what my reasons for buying it are.

I have long been convinced that society has its priorities seriously screwed up. So far, nothing has been done to prove me wrong.

[urban-homestead.livejournal.com]

It may use electricity and be made from plastic and metals, but if it lets you make soup regularly instead of buying it, I suspect that its impact probably balances out. .

I totally agree with this comment. And I agree mostly with the second part of your comment, too, if you are talking about your own consumption and that of your friends. But people who find themselves buying "as seen on TV" stuff on a regular basis - just for an example - are in a different position. They're problem isn't how the stuff they're buying was produced, it's that they are addicted to acquisitiveness. Any resolution that forces them to re-examine what they really need to buy versus what they can live without is, in my opinion, going to benefit them psychologically and spiritually as well as economically.

well with children...

[kayakman.livejournal.com]

I don;t think I CAN...

but as I get older I may try and become more self sufficient.

the key is living in an Intentional Community, and having some support infrastructure and land...

but NOBODY can live away from civilization too long...

not mentally healthy....

the Zendiks USED to live here in Austin when Wulf was alive...

but eventually moved to NC and then to WV

http://www.zendik.org

Re: well with children...

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Agreed about the Intentional Community. As I was saying to other posters here, the idea is not No Consumption, but Responsible Consumption.

A quick glance at your userinfo tells me you came here through peakoil_prep. Welcome aboard! I'm not in the process of friending people right now, but about 98% of my entries are public, so you won't be missing much. :)

Re: well with children...

[kayakman.livejournal.com]

I don't post anything that's not public...

hope I'm not bothering you.

mojo

Re: well with children...

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Not at all. I certainly wouldn't have said "welcome" if you were bothering me. :)

I just try to make it clear to the nice new people who are coming to my LJ these days not to take it personally if I don't automatically friend them back. If I read someone's LJ, I like to put in the time to read it properly and comment if I can, and my flist has gotten to the point where I can only just manage it right now. :)