Again, just for my own personal files...
Aug. 2nd, 2003 05:04 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mousmeYes, I'm still going on about this subject. I promise to stop soon. Feel free to skip this post. At least I put them behind a cut tag, right? ;)
Several posts from this posting board.
1.
The "How do you know when you're being scammed?" thread made me think of this.
We've all encountered people who are professional victims and we've all encountered nice folks with a run of bad luck. How does one distinguish between the two? What are the red flags? How do you know when to show support, when to disengage, and when to run?
2.
I think it's the same as with most friendship situations. You have to judge whether you are getting a good enough return for the energy you are putting into the relationship. Whether the drama is real or manufactured is almost irrelevant. People with fucked up lives can be just as draining as people who pretend they have fucked up lives.
If you take away more negative feelings than positive feelings from your interaction with a certain person or group, you may need to yank your hand back out of the Crazy. If you are only enduring a relationship out of pity, that's another good sign.
3.
I really wish there was a litmus test for crazy, because I seem to find myself up to the elbows in it before I recognize it. I'm beginning to recognize some red flags:
1) "But" statements: "I know better, but . . ."; "I should leave him, but . . . "; "Arson is a crime, but . . ."
2) If I fall in the woods, but no one is there to witness my drama, am I still Crazy? Crazy needs an audience. Crazy hates alone time. Crazy needs to call over and over, fill the inbox with e-mails, contact all mutual friends. Crazy writes 10 pages, front and back, single-spaced, to explain his side of the story.
3) Oh god, the unbearable agony! Crazy has no sense of proportion. Minor arguments are grounds for dramatic scenes and bizarre retribution.
4.
Originally posted by [name omitted for irrelevance]:
An example of what Abby is talking about would be the users who send me 1000-word essays on their therapy and medications when they get moderated.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Or the guy I went out with one time who followed up with ten phone messages in an eight hour period; then, after I declined date two, hand-delivered a ten page, front and back, single spaced rebuttal--it even included diagrams. I kept the letter for a long time as a concrete manifestation of Crazy.
5.
A healthy person thinks of others first.
An average person thinks of himself first.
An unhealthy person thinks of himself . . . and never does get around to thinking of anyone else.
Or, to look at it another way:
A healthy person sees himself in the universe.
An average person sees himself at the center of the universe.
An unhealthy person doesn't see the universe at all, except to the extent that it affects him directly.
6.
I know of several situations where the person who found his or her hand caught in the Crazy went through a period of sounding pretty Crazy while trying to pull it free (or reattach it, or whatever). People embezzled by friends, abandoned by mates, psychologically abused by parents, manipulated by therapists... They can be so traumatized that they become, for a time, a real trial to those around them. I know that these people aren't what you really mean by the Crazy, but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, I think.
7.
My best indicator for sticking my hand in the crazy is when I try to pull it back and they don't want to let me. A normal person lets you back away - a crazy person follows you back and screams 'Why' 'Why' 'WHY!'
8.
Originally posted by [name omitted for irrelevance]:
My best indicator for sticking my hand in the crazy is when I try to pull it back and they don't want to let me. A normal person lets you back away - a crazy person follows you back and screams 'Why' 'Why' 'WHY!'------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll add an amen to that, and group it with the idea of boundaries: the not letting you pull back often begins with their trying to pull you too far in - classic inability to understand friendship boundaries resulting in inappropriate requests.
Step One: ask friend to drive them 500 miles to see boyfriend to "save the relationship" that's clearly a disaster.
Step Two: go crazy/dramatic when friend won't do it, i.e. "why won't you help me save my love?" (insert wailing and gnashing of teeth).
9.
One thing I have found is that just because people do these psychodramas doesn't mean that necessarily are aware they do it. In fact, they may do it for years until they suddenly wake up, or they make wake up and not care, or they may never wake up.
For me, at least, I had to get over the hurdle that they were "Obviously evil," and such, because it's rarely that. Some people never learned that sympathy is a hand up, not a hand out, and they think sympathy is a fuel that is necessary to keep them emotionally alive.
It's not any easier letting go when you know they aren't evil, but at least you realize it's out of your hands.
10.
Crazy doesn't learn from past experiences. Crazy doesn't want your advice, crazy just wants you to feel bad for them.
11.
How do you know when you're sticking your hand in the crazy? Very simple: Crazy does the same thing over and over again and expects something different to happen.
12.
Crazy makes accusations without grounds. Crazy gets other people involved. And finally, Crazy takes a golf club to your television, and then waits, hiding in the dark, brandishing said golf club, for you to come in the door.
Change your locks, folks, and your phone number, when you encounter the Crazy.
13.
Crazy lies to you and always has a justification for the lie to make it seem like the right thing to have done at the time, but hates you for telling a white lie that kept him from getting hurt.
Crazy keeps you up all night trying to save the friendship and then walks away anyway, and then tells a lie that hurts you deeply, and later confesses that the lie was just for the express purpose of hurting you, but convinces you that you deserved it.
Several posts from this posting board.
1.
The "How do you know when you're being scammed?" thread made me think of this.
We've all encountered people who are professional victims and we've all encountered nice folks with a run of bad luck. How does one distinguish between the two? What are the red flags? How do you know when to show support, when to disengage, and when to run?
2.
I think it's the same as with most friendship situations. You have to judge whether you are getting a good enough return for the energy you are putting into the relationship. Whether the drama is real or manufactured is almost irrelevant. People with fucked up lives can be just as draining as people who pretend they have fucked up lives.
If you take away more negative feelings than positive feelings from your interaction with a certain person or group, you may need to yank your hand back out of the Crazy. If you are only enduring a relationship out of pity, that's another good sign.
3.
I really wish there was a litmus test for crazy, because I seem to find myself up to the elbows in it before I recognize it. I'm beginning to recognize some red flags:
1) "But" statements: "I know better, but . . ."; "I should leave him, but . . . "; "Arson is a crime, but . . ."
2) If I fall in the woods, but no one is there to witness my drama, am I still Crazy? Crazy needs an audience. Crazy hates alone time. Crazy needs to call over and over, fill the inbox with e-mails, contact all mutual friends. Crazy writes 10 pages, front and back, single-spaced, to explain his side of the story.
3) Oh god, the unbearable agony! Crazy has no sense of proportion. Minor arguments are grounds for dramatic scenes and bizarre retribution.
4.
Originally posted by [name omitted for irrelevance]:
An example of what Abby is talking about would be the users who send me 1000-word essays on their therapy and medications when they get moderated.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. Or the guy I went out with one time who followed up with ten phone messages in an eight hour period; then, after I declined date two, hand-delivered a ten page, front and back, single spaced rebuttal--it even included diagrams. I kept the letter for a long time as a concrete manifestation of Crazy.
5.
A healthy person thinks of others first.
An average person thinks of himself first.
An unhealthy person thinks of himself . . . and never does get around to thinking of anyone else.
Or, to look at it another way:
A healthy person sees himself in the universe.
An average person sees himself at the center of the universe.
An unhealthy person doesn't see the universe at all, except to the extent that it affects him directly.
6.
I know of several situations where the person who found his or her hand caught in the Crazy went through a period of sounding pretty Crazy while trying to pull it free (or reattach it, or whatever). People embezzled by friends, abandoned by mates, psychologically abused by parents, manipulated by therapists... They can be so traumatized that they become, for a time, a real trial to those around them. I know that these people aren't what you really mean by the Crazy, but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, I think.
7.
My best indicator for sticking my hand in the crazy is when I try to pull it back and they don't want to let me. A normal person lets you back away - a crazy person follows you back and screams 'Why' 'Why' 'WHY!'
8.
Originally posted by [name omitted for irrelevance]:
My best indicator for sticking my hand in the crazy is when I try to pull it back and they don't want to let me. A normal person lets you back away - a crazy person follows you back and screams 'Why' 'Why' 'WHY!'------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll add an amen to that, and group it with the idea of boundaries: the not letting you pull back often begins with their trying to pull you too far in - classic inability to understand friendship boundaries resulting in inappropriate requests.
Step One: ask friend to drive them 500 miles to see boyfriend to "save the relationship" that's clearly a disaster.
Step Two: go crazy/dramatic when friend won't do it, i.e. "why won't you help me save my love?" (insert wailing and gnashing of teeth).
9.
One thing I have found is that just because people do these psychodramas doesn't mean that necessarily are aware they do it. In fact, they may do it for years until they suddenly wake up, or they make wake up and not care, or they may never wake up.
For me, at least, I had to get over the hurdle that they were "Obviously evil," and such, because it's rarely that. Some people never learned that sympathy is a hand up, not a hand out, and they think sympathy is a fuel that is necessary to keep them emotionally alive.
It's not any easier letting go when you know they aren't evil, but at least you realize it's out of your hands.
10.
Crazy doesn't learn from past experiences. Crazy doesn't want your advice, crazy just wants you to feel bad for them.
11.
How do you know when you're sticking your hand in the crazy? Very simple: Crazy does the same thing over and over again and expects something different to happen.
12.
Crazy makes accusations without grounds. Crazy gets other people involved. And finally, Crazy takes a golf club to your television, and then waits, hiding in the dark, brandishing said golf club, for you to come in the door.
Change your locks, folks, and your phone number, when you encounter the Crazy.
13.
Crazy lies to you and always has a justification for the lie to make it seem like the right thing to have done at the time, but hates you for telling a white lie that kept him from getting hurt.
Crazy keeps you up all night trying to save the friendship and then walks away anyway, and then tells a lie that hurts you deeply, and later confesses that the lie was just for the express purpose of hurting you, but convinces you that you deserved it.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 07:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 07:29 am (UTC)Hi
Date: 2003-08-02 08:35 am (UTC)I'm impressed and edified that you didn't go to see Poms this weekend. Even if it took a nudge or two, you did it, and I'm happy that you did. Good luck with that. I wonder if he really knows what he is doing. Not that I care about him at all.
There always is a time when the gloves come off and you shoot to kill. I hope that your email did it, because God Damn you don't need to spend any more time emotionally occupied by anything to do with him.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 09:18 am (UTC)I think that I need to go hide under a rock somewhere. Too much of this hit too close to home.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 03:20 pm (UTC)We've all been the Crazy at one time or another in our lives. It's the ones who do this *all* the time who are truly beyong hope. The fact that you're able to recognise the behaviour in yourself (and God knows I've been the Crazy a bit in my relationship) pretty much signifies you're not really the Crazy all the time.
Crazy is by definition not self-aware. :)
*huggles*