A couple of thoughts on abortion

[mousme]

This has cropped up a number of times on my flist of late, which isn't all that surprising, considering my friends.

I don't know if it'll surprise many people on here if I say that, fundamentally, I don't believe that abortion is right. Maybe it will surprise people. It won't surprise those who know me well. I am the product of someone's choice not to abort, so I feel rather strongly on the topic, to say the least.

That being said, until there are safe, viable alternatives to abortion, I will remain pro-choice.

When there is a clear and present danger to the mother's health, I am all in favour of terminating a pregnancy in a safe, medical procedure that is authorized by law. Until dangerous pregnancies are a thing of the past, I will remain pro-choice.

Until everyone who doesn't want a child is given access to birth control and other safe-sex products, I will remain pro-choice.

Until little girls are no longer raped, I will remain pro-choice.

Until such a time as women are no longer abused and raped by men they thought they could trust, I will remain pro-choice.

Until such a time as abortion remains the *only* resort for some unhappy, desperate women, I will remain pro-choice.

Until such a time as women are entirely in control of their own fertility, I will remain pro-choice.




I am not anti-life. I am pro-choice. There is a difference.


:::ETA:::

I am leaving comments open for now. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, and to discuss in a sane, rational, and respectful manner. Most of you don't need to be told to remain civilized, but this is a sensitive topic, so if you get upset, keep your hands away from your keyboard. Close friend or online acquaintance, if you insult or otherwise flame someone on this LJ, I will ban your ass faster than you can say "Bob's your mother's brother." Capito?

Comments

[mousme.livejournal.com]

No, by all means, ask away. I am all for debate, as long as people are civilized, and so far everyone has been. :)

Re: You know what?

[whiskeygirl8.livejournal.com]

It is not human until it comes OUT! It's the same as if you asked me to be hooked up to a machine with you so you could stay alive. EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!!eleventyone!11

Re: You know what?

[mousme.livejournal.com]

God, I love my friends. :D

Re: You know what?

[whiskeygirl8.livejournal.com]

We must stop the apocalypse.

Man, it's been a long time since I've read a batshit insane abortion debate. I've forgotten a lot of the crazy stuff.

Re: You know what?

[prolixfootle.livejournal.com]

You're not particularly convincing as a rabid pro-lifer... no caps lock, no misspellings, no invocations to a higher power or condemnations by same...

And I don't have any sisters.

Re: You know what?

[prolixfootle.livejournal.com]

Or progeny.

[ai731.livejournal.com]

Here's my story: My husband and I love each other very much. We are happy, stable, comfortable, and employed, but *we* *don't* *want* *children*. We discussed it extensively before we got married, and made a (some would undoubtedly say selfish) decision, contrary to biological imperitive, not to have children. We use a method of birth control that is statistically 99% effective. We are actively investigating a permanent (pardon the pun) 'fix'; but even that option is not 100% sure contraception, statistically.

I *very* much resent anyone telling me that if we should happen to be the unfortunate victims of a statistical anomaly, then somehow it was "meant to be" and our carefully considered decision is null and void.

I know that this means I may one day have to make the choice to abort. I hate the very idea, but in a way I've already made it. I've chosen not to have children, and I am not willing to go through with 9 months of pregnancy in order to give a baby up for adoption, because I'm not willing to put myself through the emotional trauma. My psyche isn't strong enough. I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person, but it's the right choice for me and my family.

[baronscartop.livejournal.com]

> some would undoubtedly say selfish

Just out of curiosity, who?

t!

[joane.livejournal.com]

I am not willing to go through with 9 months of pregnancy in order to give a baby up for adoption, because I'm not willing to put myself through the emotional trauma. My psyche isn't strong enough.

This, exactly. I can admire the strength of women who can sacrifice so much of themselves and be able to give up a child they can't raise, but I could never, ever do it.

IM(ns)HO, until there's a birth control option that's 100% effective and available to every woman in the world regardless of economic status (other than abstinence of course, which even the staunchest Catholics don't demand within a marriage), we have a moral imperative to ensure that abortion remains both legal and available. Banning abortion won't end abortion - it'll only end safe, medically monitored abortion.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

No one I know (I like to think that, anyway), but I guess there are people out there who'd see it that way.

[ai731.livejournal.com]

I have been told that the only reason for not wanting children is that 'you' are selfish and don't want to spend the time/money/loose your freedom. By people who genuinely don't understand the a woman could not want children.

[pasley.livejournal.com]

I don't know how anybody as responsible as you two could be judged to be "selfish" (or "bad"). Goodness knows there are far too many children born to parents who don't want them, who then essentially punish said children by neglecting/abusing them. *That* is what I would consider selfish.

[pasley.livejournal.com]

. . . we have a moral imperative to ensure that abortion remains both legal and available. Banning abortion won't end abortion - it'll only end safe, medically monitored abortion.

Hear hear.

Re: Since I know you

[bodhifox.livejournal.com]

It is the innocents question that comes up in a war. Arguably even in a *just* war there are many innocents killed and as long as they are in another country they are easy to forget. So when we talk about supporting a war we remember our soldiers, as we should, which I say with emphasis because my son just joined the army. But we may easily gloss over other casualties, who many times are children, on the other side. Just sayin, is all.

This is why women carry the babies...

[blackbuffet.livejournal.com]

I think Forthright pretty much took the words out of my mouth with his first comment. I wholeheartedly agree with your position: I don't believe it is right but I will remain pro-choice. And there is a difference between pro-choice and anti-life.

Furthermore, in my case... despite the size of my stomach (for those who know me in person), I sure am not going to be caught dead telling any woman whether she should choose to yield the Strength and the Courage to carry a child during nine months unless she wants to. And any guy who can't understand that ought to be put through pregnancy and child labour and see how they cope with it!

Unfortunately, I am not convinced that we will ever be able to resolve this debate... for a long, long time. (And I consider myself an optimist.)

[forthright.livejournal.com]

I'm more interested in whether there is anyone out there who actually thinks that human life starts at birth and that a woman's right to choose extends right up to that point. Because this is one of the bogeymen that the radical anti-choice people seem to raise very often, but I have never met any such person.

Everyone who I have ever met on the pro-choice side, including myself, believes there should be some restrictions on abortions. However, I do wonder whether, as a rhetorical tool or as a political position, some pro-choice advocates end up taking the 'unrestricted' point of view out of fear that any concession will lead to full re-criminalization (or at least, to the withdrawal of funding for abortion).

[karine.livejournal.com]

I second that agreement.

I've had 4 pregnancies. The first one was an accident -- a skipped month of the pill, got back onto it but got pregnant anyways -- and I honestly felt that I was not in a situation to have a child. I was unemployed, in a bad situation in my relationship, and I just wasn't ready. It would not have been fair for me to bring a child into this world, to have trapped a man (or been trapped with a man?) I did not actually love (or didn't love enough -- it was a rough patch) so I chose to abort.

It counts as one of the most horrible experiences of my life. I was so scared that I was shaking like mad on the table, and clenched so hard they almost couldn't get the procedure done.

I didn't want to think of adoption. I was not going to be able to do it. I'm strong on many things... but not that. Other people here have said the same thing.

Third pregnancy caught us by surprise, but it was a happy surprise... until we learned that the baby had a defect and would not survive. This was an abortion that I chose to have in order to end the foetus' suffering, and not put us through more suffering. Some women who have had the same diagnostic choose to keep the baby because they are against abortion, and they end up with either a miscarriage, or a baby that dies one or two days after it is born. I don't understand why they would want to put themselves through the trauma of carrying a life that is certain to end very quickly and in tragedy. Having had to have the abortion felt like the right thing to do but it was a horrible thing to go through... for completely different reasons.

In the first case, I did not want the child.
In the second, I did not want to lose the child.

There are so many facets to abortion, and while yes, the better educated people are about birth control, the less unwanted pregnancies there will be, accidents still happen to people who DO use birth control, and decisions then have to be made. And frankly... it is up to the person in question to make their own decision, not to the rest of society to decide for them.

and for the record... even if you know in your heart you made the right decision... it's the kind of thing about which you wonder how different your life would be if you'd chosen otherwise.

Re: This is why women carry the babies...

[miseri.livejournal.com]

My mother told me that giving birth was not actually as painful as Western media would have you believe. She said it was a lot like a case of constipation. I remember her looking very scornful every time we saw women screaming in labour on TV....

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Huh.

It's funny. My mother has often told me how she doesn't understand how a woman wouldn't want a child, and she remains convinced that, were women all to have children, they'd understand what they were missing and be converted, etc. However, I have never heard her once say that *not* having children was a selfish decision. It's just a choice she doesn't understand.

That's as close as I've ever come to hearing that opinion.

Anyway, I am sorry that you've had to deal with that. Sometimes, people just suck.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear.

Re: This is why women carry the babies...

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Then your mother is a very lucky woman. It varies tremendously from individual to individual, from what I understand. I also have been told that women tend to "forget" just how painful labour was as a kind of psychological self-defense. If they remembered just how bad it was, they'd never want to have children again, after all. ;)

[mousme.livejournal.com]

I didn't know about the first pregnancy, but I was thinking of you a great deal (and all my friends who've had children and who've lost children one way or another) while I was writing this.

There are never any easy answers, and that's why I will always be pro-choice, even if I don't like the idea of abortion. I have always had tremendous respect for everyone who must make this kind of difficult, life-altering choice.

Re: Since I know you

[mousme.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand that most people agree that war isn't fun. I suppose, to be precise, the ones who perplex me are the extremists, as usual.

I'm not exactly on board with the "all life is sacred" group either. I waffle about the death penalty, if only because the system that leads to the gallows (metaphorical or otherwise) will always be flawed, and I'm squeamish that way.

Killing in self-defense? Yeah, I'd do that. I'd probably even do it to save a loved one, if I could. I'd probably get my ass handed to me, more likely, but hypothetically speaking, I probably would.

Re: Since I know you

[whiskeygirl8.livejournal.com]

Extremists on anything perplex me, too. They also tend to be the ones who are batshit insane, too.

[mousme.livejournal.com]

*snerk*